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Subj:   TML biweekly: Msgs 7534-7549 V44#12

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Subject: TML biweekly: Msgs 7534-7549 V44#12
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TML biweekly    Sun May 15 21:00:04 EDT 1994    Volume 44 : Issue 12

Today's topics:

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 601  7534 11-May-1994 Matt             Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 7504-7514 V44#9 
 601  7535 11-May-1994 David Johnson    Shall Not Perish 13 - RQS & SW << Gentl
 601  7536 12-May-1994 pihlab@cbr.hhcs  RE: some ideas <<                   I N
 601  7537 12-May-1994 PPUGLIESE@pimac  Sword Worlds History vs US History << F
 601  7538 12-May-1994 Stewart Eyres    L'oeul d'Dieu 3010 B-98A510-B N Ni, Wa,
 601  7539 12-May-1994 Peter H. Brento  Shiela-X, NPC extrodinaire << Shiela-X 
 601  7540 12-May-1994 mgood@MIT.EDU    Deep Space Jumps << djohnson@geds01.jsc
 601  7541 12-May-1994 Goldman of Chao  NPC exchange... << Cool idea.  I'll hav
 601  7542 12-May-1994 Steven M Bonnev  Sword Worlds << David Johnson writes:
 601  7543 12-May-1994 Andy Lilly       Green Virus << Just a quick thought, do
 601  7544 12-May-1994 Steven M Bonnev  RQS << PBJuzyk writes:
 602  7546 12-May-1994 James T Perkins  Pre-TNE Traveller Mailing List Planned 
 602  7547 12-May-1994 Mike Basinger    Subject Headings << I think instead of 
 602  7548 12-May-1994 gsw@aloft.att.c  Re: Deep Space Jumps << John Bucsek wri
 602  7549 12-May-1994 "Tariq M. Rashi  Re:NPC Swap (fwd) << ---------- Forward
 602  7545 12-May-1994 rancke@diku.dk   Sword World politics << David Johnson:

This is a passively moderated mailing list. All messages sent to the
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7534
From: msh9848@hertz.njit.edu (Matt)
Subject: Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 7504-7514 V44#9
Date: Wed, 11 May 94 21:32:17 EDT


Unsubscribe. 


------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7535
Date: Wed, 11 May 94 22:18:56 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Shall Not Perish 13 - RQS & SW

Gentlesophonts:

From Wednesday night, PBJuzyk <psualum@aol.com> writes:

> Sinzarmes

Thanks for the data on this Regina subsector line.

> Regency Quarantine Service

Great stuff here!  A fantastic expansion of *Shall Not Perish*!

> Finally should incoming hostile forces overcome an RQS base there must
> be some means for notifying other nearby systems.

Yes, this is a must!  I would only suggest that an initial `jump drone' is
dispatched as soon as the in-system forces are engaged by a hostile force -
just in case things go poorly you wouldn't want the drone not to be
dispatched at all.  Better to have the folks at the next base prematurely
worried than surprised.

> Next:  The RQS in 1200 and beyond.

I can't wait!  More, more!

>       - ship building outside the Regency probably increased and
> starport quality with it.  To successfully equip the RQS ships were
> needed, ships not available from the Imperium.  The Regency would need
> nearly all of its shipyards to produce RQS ships.  Civilians would have
> to go elsewhere and initially that would probably be to Gram in the
> Sword Wlds and Mire & Jacent in the darrian Confederation.  An effort to
> upgrade other starports to capture a share in this new market would be
> made by the Sword Wlds, Darrians, Arden & Border Wlds.

This is a great rationale for the improvement of starports in the Sword
Worlds.  I can just see the Deneb Information Service (DIS) news brief
now:  "Oberlindes Lines Announces Shipbuilding Contract with Gorram
Yards on Gram/Sword Worlds".

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7536
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 14:00:50 +1000
From: pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: RE: some ideas


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                      Date:  Sent on: 1994-May-12 01:59pm
                                      From:  Bruce Pihlamae
                                             PIHLAMAE BRUCE
                                      Dept:  Information Services
                                      Tel No:(06) 289-7056

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )


Subject: RE: some ideas


>Bundle: 600
>From: David Hoey <dhoey@it.ntu.edu.au>
>Subject: Some Adventure Ideas
>
>The following are some brief adventure ideas, the first two I used while
>playing Classic Traveller.  The last one struck me last night after dropping
>someone of at the airport.
>
>Idea 1:
>The Imperial Police Agent:  This came from an idea involving extradiction
>of criminals from countries and even states within countries.  Basically
>if a criminal commits a crime on planet A and then flees to planet B, who
>brings the criminal to have justice on planet A.  The Imperial Police 
>Agent was different from bounty hunters in that they were given a ship
>for there use and have powers of arrest on all planets.  If they required
>extra help on the arrest they could enlist the aid of the Imperial Navy.

Excellent idea.  Some variations would be to introduce the "Circuit Judge"
like "Judge Roy Bean" (sp?) or even Judge Dread (without the weapons).

I've always wondered how they would take a case to a higher "off-world" court.

You also could have an inter-system bodyguard operation for important
personages like: the visiting diplomat, professor, surgeon, or scientist.
 

>Idea 3:
>The Customs Barrier:  After going through security at the airport here
>I noticed two things:  it is very light, and in all the traveller games
>I have played I have never had to go through security or customs at a
>starport.  For this adventure the PC's have just landed on a high law
>level world and are trying to get through customs.  Unknown to the PC's
>(unless they ask) the government has decided to outlaw a large range of
>items.  Items outlaw should included an item on of the PC's is carrying
>i.e. the wearing of black items of clothing is now outlawed.

How about introducing the players to some important personage and have
one of them call hime "recalcitrant" and have the locals misinterpret it
as "thick head".  Don't laugh, our Prime Minister did it to the Indonesian
Leader.  Substitute whatever words you like but make it a grave insult
and have them carted off for flogging or something equally violent.

>I hope these ideas are of some help

They were, hope mine are too.

    
    Bruce...        pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
    
    "The more complex the argument gets, the easier it is to refute."
    "Killing is wrong!"  -- Trent 'The Uncatchable' Castanaveras
    
    *******************************************************************
    * Bruce Pihlamae  --  Database Administration                     *
    * Commonwealth Department of Human Services and Health            *
    * Canberra, ACT, Australia                        (W) 06-289-7056 *
    *=================================================================*
    * These are my own thoughts and opinions, few that I have.        *
    *******************************************************************
    
    


------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7537
Date: 12 May 1994 01:25:03 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
Subject: Sword Worlds History vs US History

From what I can see the discussion between Dave & Hans over the Sword
Worlds has evolved into a discussion over real-life historical inter-
pretation. Since I happen to believe that Dave's interpretation of
the USA's historical relations with Latin America are grossly inacur-
rate <no offence, Dave> I also disagree with his analysis of Sword
World dynamics. I feel that Hans model is alot closer to the way things
would be. I think this points up something common to Traveller &, inci-
dentally, also displayed in different views as to whether Zhodani soci-
ety is Good(tm) or Bad(tm), that is that, eventually one's personal ide-
ology, for lack of a better term, will eventually wind up being the de-
termining factor. One of the major strengths of Traveller, less so now
that TNE is upon us, has always been that *anyone* can always find *some-
place* that will suit them perfectly. I personally feel, considering the 
preceding text, that attempting to minutely dissect the evolution of the 
Sworld Worlds will inevitably be a sterile exercise. Just my opinion of
course so don't feel that I'm trying to suppress anything but I just
thought that I should raise the point that basing an argument upon fun-
damentals that others don't accept will usually result in a conclusion
that those others won't accept either. 

Phil
Pugliese

ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7538
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 10:56:34 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: L'oeul d'Dieu 3010 B-98A510-B N Ni, Wa, Gg

Aramis Subsector                                        Spinward Marches

World ID:       L'oeul d'Dieu 3010 B-98A510-B N Ni, Wa, Gg
Distances:      Main World to Jump Point = 1.432 million km
                Main World to Gas Giant  = 270 million km
                Jump Point to Gas Giant  = 3.614 million km
Physical:       Diameter= 14,944 km, Atmosphere= 1.90 atm,  Dense, 
                breathable, Gravity= 1.03 g, Hydrographics= 99% water
Demographic:    Starport= Bee, Population= 520 thousand
                Government= Corporation; Sharurshid, Law Level= Zero
Trade:          Classifications= Non-industrial, Water World
                Base Cargo Cost= Cr 452 per klitre
                Raw= --
                Agricultural= Meat, Grain, Fibre
                Processed= --
                Manufactured= Electronics
Comments:       This water world is under the aegis of Sharurshid, the 
                megacorporation specialising in rare trade goods.  
Sharurshid obtains a variety of exotic seafoods and other products form 
this world.  There has been much pressure to have the world opened up for 
settlement, but Sharurshid, fearing damage to the local ecosystem, has 
resisted.  However, the corporation does supplement the income from the 
world by exporting various basic food stuffs, harvested in a sustainable 
manner.
 
Although surface port facilities exist, most traffic is directed to the 
orbital facility, in order to reduce the potential for damage to the local 
ecology.  The naval base here, INS {\em Shaanan}, is charged specifically with 
supporting and directing patrols of the Xboat route through the Aramis Trace.  
The other bases along the route support patrols into the rest of the subsector.

Subsector D                                                     Deneb Domain

_____________________________________________________________________________
"Traveller Done Wrong 
        - Let's get the Fiction back into Science Fiction Roleplaying"

Stewart                                                         N.R.A.L.
                                                                Jodrell Bank
                                                                Macclesfield
spe@jb.man.ac.uk                                                Cheshire
                                                                SK11 9DL
____________________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7539
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 12:03:21 CDT
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Shiela-X, NPC extrodinaire

Shiela-X was a player character with an excellent (although somewhat
nutso) player.  She was converted to an NPC when my original campaign
"blew itself to smithereens" in 1989.  I liked the character so much
she started showing up in other player's adventures.

Shiela-X  

Str     9
Dex     B
End     7
Int     8
Edu     A (4) see below
S.S.    3
Psi (none to speak of)

Skills;  Pilot-5, Computer-3,Sensor Ops-3, Streetwise-2, Pistol-2, SMG-2, 
Shotgun-1, Gunnery(Missile turret)-1, Tactics-1, Navigation (old traveller)-2
Electronics-3, Engineerong-3

Shiela's father was a knife, her mother a test tube.  Yes, Shiela-X is an 
AP, or Artificial Person (hence the low S.S.).  Her DNA was combined from
several different persons.  Her purpose as designed was to be a deep space
scout for the Scout Service.

Shiela-X is a tall distinctive-looking, woman.  Her figure is thin, but the
way she dresses reveals her sex without question.  She works out
semi-constantly (high End., Str), and often wears tight spandex outfits
(one of her favorites is transparent) especially in battle, which she lives for.
She is also often seen in leather hip-length boots.

She is almost never seen without her Cigar, a huge Freudian thing which she 
chews on especially when angry or nervous.  She lights it after sex, battle, or
to annoy people.

Her hair she wears extremely short, and bleached pale white.  Her manner is
gruff and judgemental.  Her favorite choice of action is the "smash and grab"
even when such a course is foolhardy.

Shiela was "made" in the Spinward Marches, she is unsure where.  But when her
'control programming' failed and she went rogue she was at Mora/Mora.  She
killed several guards in her escape, some of them had already surrendered to
her.  The Imperial authorities have a warrant ("Armed and Dangerous") out
for her arrest or retrieval of her body (reward of 100,00 Cr).

If she likes you she may show you where they tatooed her serial number.  Chances
are you'll see it eventually since she likes to shock people with what she
wears.

Favorite Weapon; 

(casual) a big auto pistol (.44 automag, typically)
(in Battle) a flechette loaded 11mm pump shotgun

Favorite Dance;

The Tango (one of the few times the cigar comes out)

Favorite Food;

Combat Rations (bred into her for scout work)

Remember, just about everything about Shiela-X, her anti-social behavior,
her tastes, her auto-eroticism (she's very sexually self-centered) is due to
her designers desire to create a tool for deep space exploration.  She was 
intended to be put alone of a type S for months or years at a time and sent out
into the unexplored vastness.  It was found that regular humans required 
companionship too badly, and computers/robots did not have the required
independence of thought to survive or make the missilns successful.

Her training as a pilot began at a very early age (to the detriment of other
subjects like History, Literature, etc) along with training in electronics,
computers, navigation, engineering, a smattering of weapons skills and tactics
intending to give her survival skills for almost any situation.

Her education therefore is excellent in areas like metallurgy, botany, biology
(not sufficient for skill levels, just a good general knowledge), but terrible
for history, literature, philosophy, or psychology.  Judgements should be made 
regarding which level is used for a given roll.

Shiela escaped her keepers at the age of 16, and after stealing a small ship
made it appear as if she crashed it (actually making a controlled crash from
secondary controls in the engine room) which destroyed the entire front section
of the craft.  This was in the Mertractor system on a planet with a large 
underground society.  She disappeared into this realm for awhile (learning her 
streetwise skills here), making friends and contacts.

The Imps eventually figured out she was still alive (she blew up an arboretum)
and began pursuing her in earnest.  Note that in my campign world there is a
serious aversion to cloning or creating persons artificially.

At the time of our adventures She was about 32 years old.  She paired up with 
the rebellious (and Psionic) Son of the Duchess of Mertractor, Quentin Xavier
Bim III, but he is another story.


Personal note;

Typically my players and I would play Traveller (the original) in a classroom
where we went to college (Clark University, Worcester MA).  We never knew which
 of several classrooms would be available, so we would write on the blackboards
in the lobby of the building, "Shiela-X where are you?" in big letters, and 
the room number in small ones at the bottom.

Years later, people were still seeing "Shiela-X where are you" on those black-
boards on occasion.  The game long since ended.

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7540
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 11:56:45 -0400
Subject: Deep Space Jumps


djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) says:

>I've always considered that jump calculations use gravity wells as
>`targets'.

I think that instead it's calculations based on charted positions,
etc.  While your idea is interesting, how do you locate the
targets?  Also, this seems to be against the 100 diameter idea: you
want to be far away from gravity wells, not close to them.  

I think that you target your ship towards a coordinate in space,
not towards a gravity well...

If I were a player in your campaign, I would want to know how my ship
is targeting gravity wells parsecs away: that would indicate alot of 
interesting possiblities ;-)

Matt

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7541
Subject: NPC exchange...
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 9:45:09 CDT
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

Cool idea.  I'll have to pick some of the more interesting NPCs out
and send them off.  I even had pictures of some of them.  I'll have to
hit up the scanner.

Matt

- -- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

My day today? Nothing major, just Xenon base gone, Scorpio gone, 
Tarrant dead, Tarrant alive and then I found out Blake sold us out.

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7542
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 09:41:46 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)
Subject: Sword Worlds


David Johnson writes:

>(But don't the shipbuilding rules state that any world can build ships for
>its own navy regardless of starport class?)

Erm.  The old, old _High Guard_ rules said that was an option for planetary
navies.  I guess to allow tech-8 E-starport worlds to have rockets (and
hence explain Earth.)  It probably isn't exactly true now.  There's an
interesting discussion of shipbuilding in the RC in _Path Of Tears_ about
B-port worlds building starships with drives imported from A-port worlds.
The "One Small Step" articles in _Challenge_ also allowed some minor
shipbuilding on low port worlds, but I forget the details.  (Of course,
in old _High Guard_, you couldn't build tech-8 ships....)

I'm not sure about the current TNE ruling.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7543
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 15:50:25 +0100
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
Subject: Green Virus

Just a quick thought, don't think anyone's mentioned this before...

If you don't like the TNE computer virus, why not just replace it with a 
'green' virus, i.e. one that kills off plants or living creatures. Give it a 
long enough incubation period and assume it can be carried as spores or 
bacteria or something in starship air or on crew boots or in crew people, 
etc. and make it attack livestock or food crops (or even people) and you 
have quite enough reason for complete collapse of planets plus paranoia 
about infection from outside (i.e. the Regency 'blockade'; or is it the 
Coalition - I don't have TNE).

It might be more believable that after a few years someone would come up 
with a means of neutralising this (innoculation?) than the strange lengths 
required to fight a computer virus. It also explains the spread of the virus 
more easily and doesn't require suspension of belief with regard to the 
(computer) virus' infection methods.

Anyone working in germ warfare care to elaborate? :)

I'm sure someone must have thought this one up before?

Andy
Commander Lilly, PITS (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
Nothing I say or do in any way reflects the views of my very kind and
generous employers.


------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7544
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 09:59:53 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)
Subject: RQS

PBJuzyk writes:

[estimated quarantine blockade]

>    Deneb:          B - G - K - O
>    Reft:                   C - B - F - E - I
>    Trojan Reach:   L - P - O
>    Riftspan Reaches:       C - G - F - E

Remember, too, that RQS patrols *all* borders, even the Zhodani and
spinward ones.  Not as heavily, but it's a safety measure in case
someone screws up their part of the border.  Also don't forget that
the Zhodani/Vargr are patrolling an area to coreward that may not
be clearly marked on the current map.  (People who have _Survival
Margin_ and TNE know about the variability of maps, i.e. the Black
"Sphere".)  The Aslan are a first line of defense for the jump-5
Riftspan route to the old Hierate, as seen from the Regency.

Roger Sanger writes:

>With most of its assets transferred over to the quarantine
>effort, what is the role of the Scout Service in the Regency in
>the New Era?

Judging by the text, sadly minimal.  The Exploration Office is
apparently shut down.  Contact & Liaison and Survey are apparently
restricted to operations inside the Regency...updating old 
cartography and maintaining internal mutual understanding among
the various sophont species of the area.  I miss the IISS.

I suppose that it is possible the RISS is quietly trying to maintain
the old IISS Group offices out in Theta Borealis and Sigma Zephyrus,
though.  The old sector staff was pretty committed, and they may yet
have *some* small discretionary funds.  It'd be a shoestring operation,
though.  There might also be some long-range Imperial base ships like
the Solomani ones that have not yet returned from multi-decade missions
to spinward, or even gone back out -- they have to be fairly self-
sufficient.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu>


------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7546
Subject: Pre-TNE Traveller Mailing List Planned
Reply-To: jamesp@sp-eug.com (James T Perkins)
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 10:10:04 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


I am announcing my plans to create a second Traveller Mailing List.

TNE, for good or ill, has caused a deep division in Traveller gamers. A
large number of very productive TMLers have dropped off the list as the
TNE material (most specifically, the TNE setting) have made TML no
longer interesting to them.

These people feel they no longer have a forum where they can discuss
Traveller topics of interest to them. We've lost a lot of creative and
interesting people. This represents a loss of valuable talent to the
game and a loss to the TML community.

This is a behavior similar to when people unsubscribe from a newsgroup
when the "signal-to-noise ratio" grows too small. When this happens,
often an enterprising individual suggests that the newsgroup be enhanced
by division into different topical areas.

So, I am announcing my intention (again, for good or ill) to create a
topical sublist disjoint from (but related to) TML. This list will exist
to discuss the Imperium in the Classic and Rebellion period. It will
focus on the black book and MegaTraveller environment. It will not be a
totally TNE-free zone. Depending on initial response, application of TNE
rules to the Classic and Rebellion settings may be tolerated.

I have not yet decided on a name for this sublist. Nor am I taking
subscriptions for it at this time. The TML, however, will be the first
to know when the mechanisms are ready.

Please spread the word. Let disaffected former TML subscribers know that
this is in the works.

James Perkins

------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7547
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Subject Headings
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 15:20:11 -0500 (EST)

I think instead of dividing the mail listing, the TML should adapt a
subject heading format, similar to the ones used on rec.games.frp.misc.

For example:

CT: for Classic Traveller msgs
MT: for MegaTraveller msgs
TNE: for New Era based mags
Any: for any sort of Traveller format

A person mailing the TML should make there subject of the mail message

CT: 3I rules

or 

TNE: Laser Damage???

comments???
mike

- -- 
D. Michael Basinger:    Not speaking for Indiana University
                        dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
                        dbasinge@nations.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)

------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7548
From: gsw@aloft.att.com
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 13:22:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Deep Space Jumps

John Bucsek writes:

> The major problem as I see it is the loss of cargo space where you
> have to carry the extra fuel.

Perhaps it is no longer true, but it used to be that you GAINED
cargo space by doing a number of smaller jumps (the fuel usage
can be recalculated based on a smaller ship's mass--if you base
fuel usage solely on hull size, use inflatable or drop tanks).
In addition, you saved space by using a smaller jump drive.

> I disagree that it creates a big problem with the Virus and the
> Regency blockade.  The Virus doesn't have the refueling capability
> to move a large fleet by the way of a deep space stop, [ ... ]

Without TNE, I am at a disadvantage.  It occurs to me that a
large fleet action would not be necessary, though.  Why not
penetrate to the center of the Regency where they are not so
vigilant and "infect" them from the inside out?

> It makes even less sense for merchantmen to use smaller J-drives
> as this increases the travel time and decreases the profit.

This is a reasonable argument, although I believe that most
merchants will not have large jump drives.  They are far too
expensive, and less of your ship is dedicated to cargo.  They
will likely restrict their trade to nearer stars, except in
special cases, which would justify either the extra expense
or the extra time.

Again, things may have changed, but it used to be that a
large jump drive (and equipment to support it) overwhelmed
the cost of a ship, to the point where it was generally not
profitable to use one in a trader.

> CT and MT ships however would need to carry extra fuel.  I agree
> that a deep space stopover is allowable, however it should be a
> MAJOR problem to do so.  [ ... ]

> One last point, In Arrival Vengence the ship rendevous with a deep
> space comet for refueling on the way back to the regency.  [ ... ]

and David Johnson writes:

> I've always considered that jump calculations use gravity wells as
> `targets'. [ ... ]

I think we are all in agreement.  The background states that jumps
to deep space are possible, but indirectly implies that they must
not be easy.  We already know gravity affects jumps, why not use it
as a 'target' as David Johnson suggests (perhaps even a mandatory
one)?  This is consistent with the Arrival Vengeance using a comet
(it has it's own gravity well, even though it is small).  Perhaps
sufficiently dense "dark matter" could even be used, but precisely
locating it might be difficult.

,-----------------.
|Gerald S Williams|
|gsw@aloft.att.com|
`-----------------'

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AT&T DSP tools development


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Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7549
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 17:49:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tariq M. Rashid" <spstmr@gsusgi2.gsu.edu>
Subject: Re:NPC Swap (fwd)



- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Rodger..is this your address, I had this returned when I tried it.

To: rodger@cyberspace.main

Rodge, great idea on the NPC swap, Ive got about a dozen that are pretty 
well developed that Ill put in in a couple days.  Question..Where did you 
post yours/ Should we just post to the TML?

Tariq




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Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7545
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Sword World politics
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 13:03:29 +0100 (METDST)

David Johnson:
>>From Tuesday night, Hans Rancke <rancke@diku.dk> writes:
> 
>> Dominate how? And how quick is quickly?
> 
>Well, something like what all this *Smash and Grab* stuff is supposed to
>be about for those Sword World wannabees in the Reformation Coalition.
>I, King David I of Sacnoth, send my TL 12 fleet down to Gram, 

Encountering their TL 12 fleet en route. Now what? (Or _not_ encountering 
it, which would be a lot more worrying ;-).

>shoot up
>the capital, drop a few `planetbusters', execute the King of Gram and
>his family, set up some disguntled duke as king, and send emmissaries 
>to the other Sword Worlds expressing my sincerest hopes that I won't
>need to visit their world next.

And the next thing you know Sacnoth is being visited by the combined fleets
of the rest of the Sword Worlds who are anxious to ensure that you won't
visit their world next.

>The Confederation is really little more than a mutual-defense pact set up
>to protect the Sword Worlds from Imperial incursions and to permit joint
>`defensive' operations against the Darrians.  Think more of NATO
>than the European Union.

Yes, that was my own impression. Though perhaps it is a little more. The
original Sword Worlders were refugees from a lost war. Perhaps this gave
them an Us-and-Them mentality that prevails to this day. You can fight
between yourselves, but only if you don't cripple the other guy so much
he can't help against 'Them'.

>>Ah, but thats the whole point. You don't have the factories because you can
>>buy your TL 12 stuff cheaper from Sacnoth than you can build them yourself.
> 
>Sure, I do this if I value cheaper products over dependence upon Sacnoth
>(or whatever world currently is on an `up' cycle).  If I'm as smart as the
>Japanese I don't get caught in this trap.

Which may be why Sachnoth is due for their own downturn on the cycle in the
not too distant future.

>>And you don't build that ship yourself becuase it's cheaper to buy it from
>>Sacnoth, too. This also impose a natural restriction on Sacnoth's ability to 
>>dominate the Confederation: If they become too expensive the other worlds 
>>_will_ build TL 12 factories  -  which will propably trigger a recession on 
>>Sacnoth and close down a lot of industry  -  quite possibly enough to drop 
>>Sacnoth a TL in the process. That's what I mean by economic cycles.
> 
>There are other ways for Sacnoth to preserve its dominance.  The technology
>of the US is largely available to Latin American nations.  Unfortunately,
>many of these nations lack the stability, primarily political, required to
>support a similar level of economic and technological achievement.  Fostering
>this instability has been standard American policy for nearly a century.

Think about this for a moment. Sacnoth is not the US in that analogy, they 
are another one of the Latin nations.

>One of the reasons Central Americans who can't own American cars don't build
>their own factories is that the US military drops in every once and a 
>while to topple the local government.  When we're not doing that we're
>supplying arms to some `disgruntled duke' who keeps the fires of instability
>burning.  We are able to do this because we have the will and a significant
>technological advantage.  

Ah! There's another point. _Significant_ is a significant word here (;-).
How significant is an advantage of 12 over 11 and 10? The only figures I
have are some from Steve Higginbotham that are based on his extensive
experience with Trillion Credit Squadron campaigns. So they apply to
Classic Traveller. Quite possibly (almost certainly) things are different 
under Megatraveller and New Era rules, but how different and in what 
direction is difficult to say, so I will stick to Steve's until someone
comes up with better ones. According to him, and assuming competent ship
designs, a TL 12 fleet is twice as efficient, ton for ton, as a TL 11 and
six times as efficient as TL 10. Not an impossible imbalance to overcome
when you're 20 to one (I don't have the Sword World population figures
here. What is the population of Sacnoth compared to the rest of the
Confederation? It's no use being twice as good as the other fellow if 
there's 10 of him.)   -  even if the other worlds don't buy TL 12 ships
elsewhere.

>>On the contrary, there is a lot of intergration. That's why their economies
>>can affect each other that way. What they don't have is much economic 
>>_control_. Each world will do what seems best for itself.
> 
>If the King of Gram is equipping his navy with TL 12 equipment built on
>Sacnoth then he's *not* doing what's best for Gram and his fief-holders
>*ought* to depose him.

Depends on what he buys. Some things (like computers) would be risky, other
things could be checked against sabotage. But perhaps he buys them from the
Imperium instead. After all, they are propably playing the US to the Sword
Worlds' Latin America.

>Clearly,
>the Sword Worlds are able to coordinate their efforts well enough to fend
>off not only Imperial military efforts to neutralized them but political
>and economic efforts as well.  

I don't see how that follows at all. The only times the Sword Worlds
invade the Imperium is with promise of Zhodani help. You can't make
many assumptions based on how people behave when they think they have
a powerful ally.

>The Imperium has not been doing to the Sword
>Worlds what I've described for the US in Latin America and suggested for
>Sacnoth within the Confederation.  

Based on the constant instability of the Sword Worlds it seems to me that
that may be precisely what the Imperium has been doing.

If they've tried, it hasn't worked or
>the Sword Worlds wouldn't keep joining the Outworld Coalitions. 

On the contrary, if the Imperium has been doing that it explains why the
Sword Worlds are PO'd enough to keep on joining an alliance that has struck 
out again and again. 

>The Zhodani may be a factor

I've no doubt they are a major factor.

> ...But then again, if relations among the Sword Worlds
>are friendly then they ought to see some advantage in several high-tech
>worlds with class A starports.  Maybe there is some sort of negotiated
>`balance of power': Sacnoth gets the high tech and Gram gets the shipyard?

And maybe the Imperium sees that advantage too and meddles to prevent it?

>>>Well, if this was the case, why wasn't Sacnoth the capital at that point?
>> 
>>Because it was only one of 20+ worlds and the rest wanted it differently?
> 
>Maybe, but again, if I'm the King of Sacnoth my TL advantage permits me
>to pretty much `smash and grab' at will.

As mentioned above I disagree. I'm also not at all sure that he would want
to. He may have the statesman mentality rather than the wargamer mentality.

>>>Leadership clearly fluctuates among the Sword Worlds so ought not these
>>>fluctuations be tied to any fluctuations in technology?  
>> 
>>Why should it? It is tied to political power. One source of political power
>>is technology, but it's not the only one.
> 
>Now you see that in a feudal technocracy, technological power *is* political
>power.

As I've replied, technological power _enhances_ other kinds of power. A 2/1
advantage is nice, but only decisive if everything else is balanced.

>>Besides, the leadership dosen't
>>fluctuate all that much. The Sword Worlds had been led by Gram for centuries 
>>in 1120.
> 
>A good point.  I can't explain it.  As I understand it I don't see how any
>world but the technological leader can be the dominant world.

Well, I still believe that your understanding is mistaken. A population 1 
million world with TL 12 is weaker than a population 10 million world with 
TL 11. Or 10 population 1 million worlds with TL 11. Not to mention the
central point in my theory of Sword World economic-technological cycles:
The TL 11 worlds had TL 12 themselves not so long ago and still retain
TL 12 ships.

>Hope my explanation of a feudal technocracy helped.  I don't see any specific
>reason why it should apply to inter-world relations except that since many
>Sword Worlds are feudal technocracies I would expect them to take a similar
>approach to inter-world affairs.  I just don't see a bunch of economic barons
>voting and negotiating joint communiques.

Well, maybe you should try. It might help ;-). No, waitaminute. It's not
economic barons, it's economic kings. There's a differenceC

>>Oh, dear! You really have a gamer's mentality, don't you? (And, yes, here I
>>am being snide ;-)
> 
>Yes, I admit it.  I want the Sword Worlds to be as fractious and quarrelsome
>as they were in Piper's *Space Viking*.  You see, since `my' Sword Worlds
>have always been that way I *really* have no use for the rehashed Space
>Viking-wannabees of the Reformation Coalition.

I really think you should try to make up an explanation that fits the known
facts rather than to make up an explanation and change the facts to fit them.
(But I know just how you feel. I have the same attitude to the conduct of
the Aslan and Vargr in the Rebellion. The only way they could have the
succes they are described as having is if the whole Deneb Domain is run
by imbeciles or traitors. There's no way they could be the threat thay are
portrayed as unless their military opponents are hopeless incompetents. So
perhaps my disagreement with you is just that I _can_ see a way for the
Sword Worlds to work the way they are described while you can't.) 

>>The Sword Worlds have had their civil wars, true, but
>>they don't have them twice a decade. I think they've had four or five in
>>15 centuries.
> 
>Another good point but only because I don't think the Sword Worlds have
>been portrayed sensibly since the beginning.

There's no answer to this argument (I know, I've used it myself ;-). All
I can say is: Try sitting down one day and start all over by listing known 
facts about the Sword Worlds, discarding all your own interpretations for 
a while, and then try to make sense of them  -  just as an interlectual
excercise. Perhaps you'll come up with something useful.

>>Maybe the Sacnoth 
>>leaders think a destructive stalemate would destroy too much. And, as
>>I've mentioned above, if Sacnoth dosen't sell those ships then the other
>>worlds _will_ build the factories to make the parts and build their own. If 
>>that's the way it works, then the only reason why the other worlds are not 
>>TL 12 is precisely that Sacnoth IS selling them ships and spare parts.
> 
>Maybe, but keep in mind the US policy in Latin America.  Sacnoth doesn't
>*need* to dominate militarily in order to dominate.  Especially if the
>economies are as integrated as you've described then the feudal technocracy
>extends *across* the subsector and there ought to arise someone at the
>top and that someone ought to be the highest tech world.

Think about the kingdoms of medieval Europe. There were some mixing of
feudal duties between kings (especially between England and France). But
eventually the individual countries prevailed over the feudal structure.
There's no reason why a king should welcome a feudal pattern just because
their own power is based on it. And, in fact, we KNOW they don't. If they
did the Sword Worlds would be an empire instead of a confederation.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

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